> Science vs Religion > Does God Exist? > Cosmological Arguments
  #21  
Old 12-11-2004, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iacchus32
Sound familiar? This was the birth of the Jewish race by the way (the whole chapter tells the story), and perhaps suggests why so much emphasis was placed on who the mother was. Which again seems to repeat itself with the birth of Jesus. So it was always up to the woman to bear the burden of proof.
Of course this can also be extended to religious ideas in general, and perhaps you can understand why I referred to the bastardization of someone else's ideas. Are you listening Mr. Cuttlefish? Isn't this what you were asking me to explain? So, if somebody has had a (genuine) religious experience -- at least you know who the mother is, right? -- it's up to them to bear the burden of proof. So in that sense this is what a women represents in the spiritual sense ... hence the birth of both Judaism and Christianity, respectively.

While something similar is signified by the following passage ...

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1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. ~ Revelation 12:1-6
Here the woman signifies the advent of the New Church (the New Jerusalem), and the birth of a child, specifically a male, signifies the birth of New Doctrine, which is about to be brought forth, to establish the New Church.

While something similar (believe it or not) is portrayed by chapter 5 of my book ...

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6 So I went to bed that night in the front of my truck, and fell asleep on the front seat. And after a couple of hours I began having a disturbing dream: about three race cars—a red one, a white one, and a blue one—all racing around a race track and running into each other, then bouncing off and running into each other again. This happened several times before I awoke.

7 When I awoke, I looked up and saw a vision of a man, "wearing a white robe." And as I peered up he came into such a view, that I found myself looking underneath his gown—at his testicles coming into full view! Mind you I was wide awake! For some reason it reminded me of my father, who had died a little over a year earlier. Perhaps because of a similar experience I had when I was a boy about ten: I remember seeing my father in a similar fashion when he was sitting on the couch and wearing only a bathrobe.

8 I fell back asleep shortly after this while laying on my back. And was only asleep a short while when I re-awoke to this incredible screeching noise—wailing in my ears! And I opened my eyes to the sight of this newborn baby, which completely filled my vision before me! (I lay on my back looking up at the ceiling of the cab.) Again I was wide awake! It was a breathtaking sight to behold, and when this child cried, he cried in such a demanding way (it was a boy and he cried about ten times), letting the whole world know he had just been delivered and required immediate attending to. I soon became uncomfortable, due to the immediacy of the moment, and desired that the child be removed, for fear I would cause it harm. I kind of backed away, as I lay there crouched in the front seat, and the child was removed, and taken up into heaven.

9 I lay there for a moment, as my mind was struck with wonder. And I heard a song, from up above. It was faint and barely audible but still discernable. It was the song, Age of Aquarius, by the popular musical group, The Fifth Dimension. I know they say we're living in the Aquarian Age, but I'm still not sure what that means? And for another moment I lapsed into a state of unconsciousness. When I re-awoke, there was a vision of a cross, held suspended in the middle of the sky and arrayed in a very special way (as portrayed in the next chapter).
Of course we all understand who the burden of proof is on now don't we?
__________________
So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2004, 04:30 PM
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You still haven't shown that they made a practice of killing unwed mothers. As you may know, adultry is the act of a married person (almost always a woman) having sex with a person who is not their spouse. So what are the locals going to do? Possibly they might say, "She's married to Joseph, but we caught her sleeping with God." You think?

Not only that, there is nothing in the Biblical accounts of Jesus that I have found that indicates Mary was fearful of being stoned as an adultress. This is your own invention. Plus, as usual, you have failed to address an important point I made: What with all the ruckus around the birth, her "adultry" was revealed to all. Heck, wise men in other countries knew it. Still, no stoning.

But it is a minor point, since the story of the birth of Jesus is just a legend, incorporating the mythology and symbology of several other religions, like Mithraism
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Mithras was said to have been sent by a father-god to vanquish darkness and evil in the world. Born of a virgin (a birth witnessed only by shepherds), Mithras was described variously as the Way, the Truth, the Light, the Word, the Son of God, and the Good Shepherd and was often depicted carrying a lamb upon his shoulders. Followers of Mithras celebrated December 25th (the winter solstice) by ringing bells, singing hymns, lighting candles, giving gifts, and administering a sacrament of bread and water. Between December 25th and the spring equinox (Easter, from the Latin for earth goddess) came the 40 days' search for Osiris, a god of justice and love. The cult also observed Black Friday, commemorating Mithras' sacrificial bull-slaying which fructified the earth. Worn out by the battle, Mithras is symbolically represented as a corpse and is placed in a sacred rock tomb from which he is removed after three days in a festival of rejoicing.
Anything there sound familiar?
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2004, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iacchus32
Of course this can also be extended to religious ideas in general, and perhaps you can understand why I referred to the bastardization of someone else's ideas. Are you listening Mr. Cuttlefish? Isn't this what you were asking me to explain? So, if somebody has had a (genuine) religious experience -- at least you know who the mother is, right? -- it's up to them to bear the burden of proof. So in that sense this is what a women represents in the spiritual sense ... hence the birth of both Judaism and Christianity, respectively.
You love to stretch your metaphors, don't you? This one is practically yelping in pain...I am listening, Iacchus, but frankly this does not answer a thing; I would love for you to try once more, but in less metaphorical and more concrete terms. Certainly, in order to express something metaphorically, one must understand it well enough to explain it in a simpler, more concrete manner.

For instance, you say here "if somebody has a (genuine) religious experience--at least you know who the mother is". Two things--first off, how is a genuine experience distinguished from an other-than-genuine one? Can we ever be fooled? Second thing...what mother? I assume you mean this metaphorically, but I am at a loss as to what the hell you mean by the mother in this case, let alone how one would know who she is! Please try again, more concretely, if you are interested at all in my understanding (which I only can infer is the case, given that you asked if I was listening.)
Quote:

While something similar is signified by the following passage ...

Here the woman signifies the advent of the New Church (the New Jerusalem), and the birth of a child, specifically a male, signifies the birth of New Doctrine, which is about to be brought forth, to establish the New Church.
Again...metaphor...don't overextend them...
Quote:

While something similar (believe it or not) is portrayed by chapter 5 of my book ...

Of course we all understand who the burden of proof is on now don't we?
WHat...on you, for claiming to be fully awake in what could easily have been a hypnopompic state? I see no reason to take this story at face value--or rather, if I do take it at face value, I see very good reasons not to trust its validity.
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