> Science vs Religion > Evolution vs Creationism
  #21  
Old 10-09-2004, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iacchus32
I know full well what the difference between the words mean. Where the one implies determinism the other implies free will.
Determinism and free will have little to do with the way you used those words. Cause can simply be one event which leads to another. For example "The reason the accident occured was poor visibility. Intent, by contrast, means to have a plan to do something. "The reason I killed him is because he was messing with my girl."

Accidents and random occurences have nothing to do either with determination or with free will.

Now if you say the reason for the universe is the Big Bang, that implies an event which led to other events, but with no suggestion of intent. But if you say the reason for the universe is God created it, then you imply intent and a desired outcome. Thus, you are using the word "reason" in two different and wholly unrelated senses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iacchus32
However, the world does not function from the standpoint of one or the other, but both. While here free will is more a matter of "first cause" (God in other words) and determinism is what extends from it. And the whole world is an interaction between "life" and its "effects."
This is unrelated to the matter under discussion, but since you bring it up, classic determinism cannot coexist with true free will. The rest of your statement is gobbeldygook, though I'm sure it sounds lofty and erudite to you.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2004, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by goozleberry
Determinism and free will have little to do with the way you used those words. Cause can simply be one event which leads to another. For example "The reason the accident occured was poor visibility. Intent, by contrast, means to have a plan to do something. "The reason I killed him is because he was messing with my girl."

Accidents and random occurences have nothing to do either with determination or with free will.
There's no such thing as an accident, just things that are highly unpredictable (doesn't mean they're not affected by the laws of cause-and-effect however) and out of our control. Therefore that which strictly involves cause-and-effect is deterministic, and that which involves one's personal intent entails free will. So there you have it, the dualstic nature of reason.
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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2004, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Iacchus32
There's no such thing as an accident, just things that are highly unpredictable (doesn't mean they're not affected by the laws of cause-and-effect however) and out of our control.
So you resolve the problem by re-defining "accident" to make it unrecognisable to other members of the language community. Once again, you are saying, after the fact, that something happened intentionally, because if were not intended (by god, I assume) it would not have happened. Circularity 101.
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