Materialism is materialism, whether you're an Atheist or belong to the Christian Church or not. While I certainly don't see why any self-respecting Atheist shop-keeper would pass up the opportunity of the biggest sales pitch of the year, especially when we can pass it all off in the name of Santa Claus, which of course we all know is fictional. And besides, we can say we're just doing it in the name of helping our neighbors celebrate what's most important to them.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

Bah, Humbug!

Heck, I can consume on any day of the year for that matter, I don't have to set a specific day aside.

It's the "contrived" smile isn't it?

What most people pass off as love, I would say constitutes bribes and selfishingness. A great way to spoil the kids huh? Basically that's all I see people getting out of it.

Hey, if you want to celebrate Christmas, no problem ... Who me? Scrooge? Wasn't he a merchant or a shop-keeper? I don't stand to gain anything over the holidays ... except a few pounds maybe.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

I don't expect that I'll ever receive a pair of earrings from Tiffany & Co. I remembered that you hesitated to buy a circle template for $4.79 (Chapter 8, Dear David/479):

Chapter 8, Dear David/479/Final Relation

Wasn't Scrooge an Atheist? Ah, but he got converted in the end didn't he? But if it wasn't for those darned ghosts, I don't think it would have happened though.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

Seems like you have it out for atheists, Iacchy. Most of the shops I see are touting very religious items. I don't think it is just the atheists that are trying to cash in.

Yes, Santa Clause is fictional, although he has his roots in a person that probably really existed. The same could be said of Jesus.
LOL. I'm a skeptic, but you sound very much like a cynic.

And tell me, who is the more materialistic, the person who freely gives gifts, or the one who refuses to part with a single dime using "the evils of materialism" as an excuse?

I honestly can't say I know who all the retailers are, but there's nothing religious about the exchange of merchandise which goes on this time of year ... unless of course it involves leading people around like cattle.

I suppose I can be at times. Most of the time I just ignore the whole thing and let people do what they're going to do.

Oh that would be a judgment call don't you think? Heaven forbid!

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

That is indeed a problem, but I cannot blame Christmas for their inability to budget. Many people run up debts all the time. If you want to look for the "villian" here, look at the places that offer easy credit, but don't bother to mention the interest rates.

With the exception of housing and cars, I refuse to buy anything that I can't pay for immediately, because I do not want to support those vampires at the credit-card companies.

But indeed, consumer debt is a serious problem, however I'm not sure about a solution. It's like gambling in that you can't force a person not to throw away their money.
And yes, consumer debt leads to poverty too. I always give to the local charities and food banks during the Holidays too, as well as the rest of the year, though most of my charity goes to family members. I have a couple of unemployed siblings I'm helping.

So you can blame Madison Avenue if you want, but by doing so, you are negating the existence of free will. Are people controlled by advertisers? Diggy would probably say "yes". I say "somewhat", but the more you employ skepticism, the less likely you are to be taken in by advertisements.
Ah, personal responsibility. It is a very good thing to learn. But you don't have to get rid of your credit cards if you are capable of simply not using them.
Well, I talk a good game, but in truth, there are always last-minute things for me too.
I often tell people not to get me anyting because I honestly prefer giving to getting. But no, I'm not buying you the Tiffany earrings.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement like this. Many if not most of the people who make, sell and buy religious items are doing so because they truly are religious. You can be religious and still want to make a profit, you know. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well, you couldn't really stop them...
It certainly is a judgment call. Don't you have any?

How do you know that? All I see is a bunch of mass merchandising.

You mean like lemmings going over a cliff?

What's that, judgment? If I did, it would be purely arbitrary.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

And yet I would venture to say that most Atheists in this country (those who don't subscribe to any form of religion) are probably materialists.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

From talking to people and finding out what they believe. It works a lot better than deciding what other people believe based on one's own prejudices. I see that too. I also see genuine caring, affection, and yes, piety. I suppose, though, it is possible to screen out the parts that don't fit with ones preconceived notions.
More like allowing people their free will. You aren't against that, are you?LOL! Well, that could definitely explain some things about you...
Probably so. Of course, that would be "materialist" in the sense that they believe that the only things that are real are things which can be perceived directly or indirectly by the senses. Do not confuse that with "materialistic" in the sense of caring only for material goods, wealth and possessions, i.e. greedy.

Are you saying people have no desire to believe that they're delusional, or what?

It sounds like one big broken record to me.

Free will? Do you mean in the sense that we're all free to believe what we want to believe? Well, that certainly must have been what the founding fathers had in mind when the established this country.

No doubt.

Oh, how foolish of me to even consider such a thing!

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

Gooze beat me to it...2 different words. I would also suggest that most non-atheists are probably materialists...in the second sense. Even the televangelists know that they cannot rely on concerns about the soul alone; they promise that what you donate will come back to you many times over!

I think perhaps this year I must add 'Berry to my Xmas list....

Any particular reason? I do understand that we experience a lot of peer pressure over the holidays.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

She has been a source of inspiration and consternation, but always food for thought. She has shown kindness and understanding, and of course her good humor. In short (and I hope I do not presume too much), I have come to consider her a friend.

I am sure you see it purely as peer pressure though, or some materialistic attempt to hoard warm fuzzies...

This is the time of year for the warm fuzzies. After all, Christmas comes but once a year.

Thank you sir, but as I have said, I prefer to give rather than receive gifts, and especially not from strange mollusks.

I do consider you to be my friend though, Diggy. Also Iacchy, even though we are more like belovéd adversaries. Peggy too, although she can forget about the diamonds earrings. I'm guessing Eppy won't be sending me a Christmas card.

I have learned much on these boards, and without getting too sappy, I want to thank everyone. I hope you get what you want for the holidays, even if what you want is no mention of holidays.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled squabble.

Mollusks? Mollusks?


Ooooh...Mollusks!



I thought you said "bacon"...

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas ...

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?