I'm not saying it doesn't exist. However, if you weren't here to acknowledge it, how would you know? How do you know for a fact that we don't live in something comparable to The Matrix?

How can you be so sure? Do you think our spiritual peace and well-being involves being at a constant state of seige with ourselves?

Was Dionysus the god of confrontation? Yes. While understand this, I'm not going to give you what you want, just because that's what you demand. Also understand that the god Dionysus was habitually rent to pieces by his adversaries who, deemed they understood more about who he was than he did ... and yet, he was always reconstituted. So, if you think you have something over me, guess again. Oh, if you want to know why I bring this up, all you need do is consider the name of the forums here.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

A. you could not know. B. It would not matter, as the question would never have arisen.Short anwer? We don't know, and can't know. That is why we say things like "under the assumptions of materialism" or "assuming idealism to be true" to qualify our blanket statements about reality. But you have never come close to saying "I don't know", no matter how patently obvious it is that you don't.

The fact that we do not know something as absolute fact (indeed, can not know as absolute fact) need not prevent us from making assumptions and then testing those assumptions. We can, within our self-referent world views, make tremendous strides and very practical progress.

On the other hand, we could do as you do, claim absolute certainty and refuse to question, build upon notions which appeal to our egos, and laugh at those who have the honesty to admit ignorance and acknowledge assumptions. And make no progress at all.I'll let Gooze answer this, as it was addressed to her...but I would like to know how it is that you see this in what she wrote.And are you the real Dionysus?


Didn't think so.

Then you are making the earth-shattering revelation that we only know what we know. I'll alert the media. As to the Matrix reference, Diggy has already explained how we test assumptions about reality. In "The Matrix", those assumptions failed repeatedly. The assumptions made by materialists have not failed.
Oh no, of course not. I'm do not doubt that your spiritual peace involves, and perhaps requires that you do not ever go to war with your own ideas. Some of them might turn out to be wrong, and then your spiritual peace would be shot to hell. But some of us are more concerned with finding truth than "spiritual peace".

And I am not "sure" that your beliefs cannot be substantiated. I should not have said you "can't" substantiate them, I should have said you "have not yet" substantiated them. Perhaps someday you will. I remain dubius.
Then perhaps you shouldn't be comparing yourself to Dionysus. And I no more "demand" anything of you than you "demand" that I stop badgering you and let your ridiculous statements pass without comment. This is a debate, Iacchy, not a series of ultimatums.
Perhaps his adversaries were right. Have you considered that possibility? Is it not true that the reason you are being metaphorically "rent to pieces" on this forum is that you do not posess the knowledge to defend your positions, and that you repeatedly refuse to make any attempt to acquire that knowledge? Perhaps the tragedy of Dionysus was that he was tragically ignorant. He never learned how to deal with his adversaries, so he kept making the same mistakes over and over and over...
I am beginning to see the name of the forums in a new light. Dionysus famous for constantly losing, then coming back with the same strategy.

The assumptions made by the materialists have not failed to explain anything beyond the materialistic sense, I agree. It's still an assumption however, as it requires that we be disengaged from it in order to examine it.

Are you suggesting that there is no truth in one's peace of mind?

If it is meant to be substantiated it will be.

And yet why discount the very thing which brought me here? In fact, I have spoken very little of it up until now ... due to a lack of interest more than anything else.

And you would have me prove to you that I'm the son of Zeus? Now that is ignorance.

It isn't altogether different than Jesus being continually hung up on the cross ... It kind of reminds me of a grape arbor in fact.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

Well, they don't need to explain anything about the non-material sense, since such a thing has not yet been shown to exist.
And I do not see how it follows that one must "disengage", nor do I even see how it is possible. Mental activities do not disengage you from the material world, Iacchy.
I am suggesting that some abandon the search for truth in favor of a comfortable illusion that gives them peace of mind. I prefer to stay on my sometimes-uncomfortable search for truth.
Of course. But I'm not holding my breath. Neither will I subscribe to beliefs without substance.You're rambling, Iacchy. Must be another one of those "late-night" posts. You've mentioned Dionysus many many times. This is at least the third time that you've told me that he was a symbol of confrontation. See, Iacchy? I actually read what you write.
LOL! You really are out there today, Iacchy. I was responding to the comparison you made between the trials of Dionysus (continually rent to pieces) and your own struggles (having your ideas rent to pieces). It was you who started this metaphor, Iacchy, now you are complaining because I continue in the same vein? Get some sleep.
Sorry to break this to you, Iacchy, but hanging yourself on a cross doesn't make you a martyr. (And I'm not familiar with the legend of Jesus being "continually" hung up on the cross. Popular myth has it at only one crucifixion.)

If we didn't experience ourselves as being distinct and separate entities from the world, for example making a distinction between myself and the brick wall which stands before me, there would be nothing to examine.

What's the difference between the truth of a chicken and the truth of a frog? Obviously they don't "share" the same truth/reality do they? So why should we necessarily put them at odds with one another as a result? Why cause all the turmoil in the chicken by trying to convert it into a frog, and vice versa?

Well, that all depends on who or what you're trying to feed. Feed the body or feed the soul?

All I'm suggesting is it's not a particularly pleasant experience, being rent to pieces ... whether it's uncalled for or otherwise.

As a matter of ritual and, Jesus' own words, "Take up the cross and follow me," (Mark 10:21), Jesus was continually crucified.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

I am surprised at you, Iacchy. I thought you were the ecologist type. You know, "we are all part of the same world" etc. The way we distinguish between ourselves and a brick wall is in our observable characteristics. That is what science is so good at doing and philosophy is so poor at doing.
They all have the same truth, which is reality. The only thing that differs is how they react to it. In my opinion, the "soul" or consciousness (as you have sometimes defined it) is part of the body. Stop feeding the body and the soul will soon die. What I am trying to do is live and learn.
Which is why I can't understand why Dionysus did not find a better way to deal with his tormentors. Necessity is supposedly a mother.
I'm not sure how you interpret that as being continually crucified. I only see it as saying others should take up a burden and cast off your wealth in order to enter heaven. This is the famous "Camel through the eye of the needle" verse. I see absolutely nothing about ritual crucifixion.