OMRI. You ignored what I said and set of on a completely different "journey"
Yep. I can't seem to get onto that higher plane of yours where I can believe rubbish.
What characteristics of life does God show? Respiration? Reproduction? No, I don't believe that you can define your imaginary friend as "alive".
I "bring it on" all the time. You use OMRI to avoid it. Also you have just informed me that anything I "bring on" will not budge you from your position. Since you tell me you have your fingers in your ears, I guess I'm just talking to others who may be reading these discussions.
LOL. If they ever had you on the stand as a witness, the lawyers would rip you to shreds. You can't keep your story straight.

Iacchy: Your honor, I can personally testify that God created the universe.
Lawyer: Did you see Him? Hear him? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that he did this thing?
Iacchy: No, but it must be because I can't think of any other way.
Judge: The witness will kindly stick to the facts and not just state his opinions.
Why would anyone who "just sticks to the basics" be credible as an expert on cosmology or anything else? You might qualify as a kindergarten teacher, provided you stick to the basics only.
You see? I knew you wouldn't refute it. Instead, you OMRI, this time with meaningless obfuscation. You can't cover your ignorance by spouting more ignorance, Iacchy.
Self contradictory, Iacchy. Can you make a decision which goes against God's free will? If you can, then God is not omniscient. If you can't then you must do what God knows you will do, thus, you have no free will. You have no wiggle room here, lad.
Until your next OMRI, which I estimate the probability of at about 99.9%
Which says nothing of the sort. It denies the deterministic aspect of the universe, however loudly and often you proclaim it.So you proclaim, loudly and often.

God exists. End of story.

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Revelation 14:1

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

What a devestatingly convincing argument. I especially like how you support it with evidence. Even better is how you punctuate it with the statement that you are not open to any further discussion on the issue. My, that's some open mind you have there.
Revelation 14:4
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Only men and only virgins into heaven, eh Iacchy? You can have your petty, prudish, piggish God.

Have already given my arguments. It's just a matter of whether you're willing to accept them or not?

Oh violet Aphrodite!

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

And what was that song by Billy Joel, in tribute to Aphrodite so to speak? ... "She's Always a Woman to Me." Therefore if a man defiles himself through women, through his relationship with women, through pridefulness and stupidity, you don't blame the woman for this.

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

I've responded directly to almost all of your arguments. You have responded to my counterarguments with OMRI. You have failed to defend your arguments, so no, I don't I don't accept them.
LOL. Not sure where you are going with this. My quote was to show that citing bible verses is, to say the least, problamatic. See, they support all sorts of horrible stuff, like sexism. Now I'm not a virgin, so I'm ineligible for heaven, but even if I were, I'd be denied because I'm a woman.

A man "defiles" himself through women? How does a woman defile herself? Do I have to buy anything from the "novelties" store?

So, Iacchy, are you a virgin? I only ask because I'm concerned for your immortal soul.

which one? any? all? if not all, which do you deny?


Just curious...

You're lack of understanding about how to interpret such passages completely blinds you.

Yes, that's correct. I'm having no problem whatsoever understanding what Iacchus is saying here. Therefore, it is only an incorrect relationship that defiles, and that goes for "both" men and women. As for the passage in question, these principles are also being used as a symbol of other attributes...i.e. "virgin", which does not mean in the physical sense.

I'm afraid not. That is only your ignorance on the matter, which you choose because (just as you once said about satanists) you just don't like God. In fact, you hate him (as you so often allude to) and everything you would assume he stands for (if you believed he existed ), and that is what this is all about. It's as simple as that. End of story.

By the way, your absence of virginity is not the reason you will not go to heaven ...if heaven exists of course . And you should be very happy about that, since you would absolutely hate it there, where you would have to be near the very thing you hate.

She's not willing to accept them...end of story. I'm not saying that they have been perfect, but even if they were, it would make no difference. So now that we've established that, maybe this whole futile battle can be over.

"Not defiled with women" doesn't mean "virgin" in the physical sense? So what do you think that "virgin" means in this context? Sounds to me like it is you who is twisting the interpretation. And who decides which things are "symbols" and which are actual? As a poet, I have no problem with symbolic language, but parts of the Bible (Revelation in particular) are a mishmash of conflicting "symbols". You simply cannot decide that my interpretation is wrong, because there are so many interpretations. You want to use what you think it means? Fine. I'll use mine. If someone tells me that theirs is the only correct interpretation, though, I'll have to disagree.
LOL. How can I hate something I don't believe in? But I don't even dislike everything that religious people stand for. Far from it. I only have a problem with the mythology part. I think adults should stop believing in fairy tales.

Much of the morality part of the Bible is quite good, though not all of it. Got some great erotic poetry in Song of Solomon.
I am quite sure I would dislike living under an egotistical, capricious dictator. That is the God that the Bible portrays. ("Abraham! I command you to go kill your son. Ha Ha! Just kidding!"). But I am open to the possibility that the Christians have it wrong and that God could be a pretty nice guy. As always, though, I'd need evidence.

However, thank you for adding the "if heaven exists" part. That shows you have not completely eliminated that possibility. I'm impressed.
What have we established? The only thing I can see is that you have decided what I will and will not accept. But discussion is never futile. You may not change me and I may not change you, but it helps for us to turn these things over in our minds, does it not?

Just out of interest, what do you think is the meaning of that verse that Iacchus cited, Revelations 14:1? What do you think is the significance of the one hundred and fourty four thousand?

I said you hate "everything you would assume he stands for (if you believed he existed)". Of course we can hate certain characteristics, and you have assigned certain characteristics to the so-called "fairy tale" God of the bible...characteristics that you have a disdain and strong revulsion for. Therefore, whether He does or does not exist, you still hate the idea of Him, based on what you think He would be (according to your interpretation of scripture, etc).
However, the wink was added because I do believe without a doubt that heaven exists, but I know that you don't.
Surely you mean "turn these things over in our brains", don't you? I thought there was no evidence that we have a mind.

The meaning of "not defiled with women" and "virgin" are quite clear to me, just in reading it. For you, maybe a further explanation would be helpful. Perhaps THIS will help. However, it doesn't really matter, since as you said:Okay.

And maybe the problem is you haven't learned how to ask the right questions?

The propagation of consciousness?

And why shouldn't I be selective if my "intent" is not to learn something? Of course you're the one -- or, was that Mr. Cuttlefish? -- that denies intent even exists.

What? Before or after they ask me to swear on the Holy Bible?

Why would anyone not wish to establish a solid foundation for what they believe?

Yet you are obviously not asking the right questions here, otherwise you would understand -- and I don't just mean your "physical body" -- you were in error here.

How so? If God can create something which is capable of thinking and acting freely (very much in the manner of Himself), why not?

Until your next batch of misdirected questions then?

Really? And yet every "effect" is wholly determined by "its cause." This is the key to determinism you see. So no, there's nothing to say that free will cannot be compatible with determinism.

Well, at least I've made that much "clear" now haven't I?

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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?

I admit that the scriptural description of God is not a person (or entity) that I would care to worship or even spend time with. It is not hate, just avoidance. Of course, if He killed any of my love ones in one of His egotistical rampages, I'd be tempted to dislike Him strongly. But since I have no evidence that He has done any of the things that the Bible claims he has done, that is a moot point.

Now I have lots of examples of what a jerk the God of the Bible is, if you would like to discuss them. But since I don't require that a real God has to conform to the things said in the Bible, then I don't write off the possibility that there may be a non-psychotic God out there somewhere.
Yes, I suspected that (the witch smiley was a pretty strong hint too), but I could not let even your insincere attempt at openmindedness pass without a compliment. I find it quite possible that you never doubt your beliefs.

Oh, I use the word "mind" all the time. I consider it to be one human-defined aspect of our brain, though not the only one. I would not disagree that it exists as a defined set of characteristics. I would only disagree that it exists on a different plane of reality. In my mind it is simply another part of the only reality we have ever shown to exist.I'd rather have your explanation than a canned one that you have borrowed from some other source. It would show me that you have considered the question yourself, not that you accept some other person's explanation without question. However, if you wish to discuss that one, then quote me the parts you find interesting and explain why you believe them. I'd love to discuss it.

Canned? That explanation was very close to what I've understood about the verse, so that is why I chose it. I would like to point out that my understanding was not from that or any other source, but I looked that up for you because you referred to "my" own interpretation and how I was twisting the meaning. So I chose not to speak for myself in that instance to show that it was not all me and me alone who interprets it that way. But I know that does not matter in the slightest.

So then, why do you not say it to me in your own words? It sounds to me as if you are so fearful of getting it wrong that you dare not paraphrase it.

Frankly, Eppy, I do not trust any opinion that a person cannot state in their own words. It indicates to me a certain lack of understanding, and an all-to-easy tendency to accept another's words without question.

If you ask me to explain anything I have linked, I will do so, in my own words. It is the least I can do to show that I have not only read, but understood what the original author was saying. Will you do as much?

Why yes, of course, this is exactly what it is. Thank goodness we all have you around here to tell us these brilliant things. Spoken true to your nature. Goodbye.

Goodbye, Eppy. I'm sorry you had to leave before you had a chance to tell us the meaning in your own words. It is the world's loss.