> Science vs Religion > Does God Exist? > Cognizance, Meaning and Absolutes
  #101  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Iacchus32
Is the truth physical? Or, is it the abstract observation of what is physical?
The former. Any "abstraction" would be a subjective, interpretive thing which may or may not be an accurate representation of truth/reality. If you and I have different "abstractions" of the same real phenomenon, they cannot both be true, or else, truth has no meaning. You might as well throw the word away.
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What is a mind, without the ability to reason? This in fact is all I've ever alluded to -- and yes, it does include the ability to reason about how these other processes work -- with regard to consciousness.
But truth and reality exist outside of consciousness and outside of the mind. They existed before minds and consciousnesses did. Yes, I'm sure you're very proud of your ability to reason, but it has nothing to do with truth/reality. They exist whether or not you are aware of them.

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Which isn't anything other than what you and Mr. Cuttlefish have attempted to express yourselves with respect to your own theories by the way.
LOL. Another attempt to impose your own template of beliefs over what Diggy and I have said, and as usual, totally incorrect. While my "theories" are certainly not absolute truth, they are at least based on evidence and sound logic, not supposition and circular reasoning.
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  #102  
Old 02-20-2005, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by goozleberry
The former. Any "abstraction" would be a subjective, interpretive thing which may or may not be an accurate representation of truth/reality. If you and I have different "abstractions" of the same real phenomenon, they cannot both be true, or else, truth has no meaning. You might as well throw the word away.
And yet in order for you to say such a thing (and know of a certainty) would imply that you've always existed, were all-knowing, had a hand in its creation and, existed independently (objectively) on the outside of it. Other than that, everything else is pure conjecture.

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But truth and reality exist outside of consciousness and outside of the mind. They existed before minds and consciousnesses did. Yes, I'm sure you're very proud of your ability to reason, but it has nothing to do with truth/reality. They exist whether or not you are aware of them.
As if to say consciousness and the mind are not part of a reality which is wholly interactive? Not so. The truth exists in all things, and is all about the relationship between all things. How do I know this? Because my mind told me so.

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LOL. Another attempt to impose your own template of beliefs over what Diggy and I have said, and as usual, totally incorrect. While my "theories" are certainly not absolute truth, they are at least based on evidence and sound logic, not supposition and circular reasoning.
This is pure conjecture. Unless of course you expect me to somehow receive what you're saying here without the ability to think about it?
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So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go? ... Off to define another "reality" perhaps?
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  #103  
Old 02-20-2005, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Iacchus32
And yet in order for you to say such a thing (and know of a certainty) would imply that you've always existed, were all-knowing, had a hand in its creation and, existed independently (objectively) on the outside of it.
It implies no such thing. I do not think that I am terribly important in the big picture, and certainly I entertain no ego-driven illusions about having a hand in the creation of the universe. The fact that I have a functioning brain doesn't change that observation. And as I have said often before, I don't claim to know anything at the 100% or "certainty" level.
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As if to say consciousness and the mind are not part of a reality which is wholly interactive?
Consciousness and the mind/brain are a part of reality, but only a small part. There are many parts of reality which do not interact with us whatsoever. Consciousness is the result of reality, not vice versa.
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The truth exists in all things, and is all about the relationship between all things. How do I know this? Because my mind told me so.
What your mind tells you has little effect on reality. It is as it is, with or without your mind.
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Originally Posted by Iacchus32
This is pure conjecture. Unless of course you expect me to somehow receive what you're saying here without the ability to think about it?
LOL. No, Iacchy. I don't expect you to correctly receive anything that I say. This is based on the evidence that you have consistantly mis-stated my position and frequently ignored my arguments and my questions. Your "reciever set" appears to be malfunctioning.
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  #104  
Old 02-20-2005, 11:28 PM
Son of Cuttlefish Son of Cuttlefish is offline
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Iacchus, could you please tell me what "pure conjecture" is by your definition? And why it is that "I know because my mind told me" is somehow different from "pure conjecture"?
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